Tulpa.info - metaphysics

it's kind of silly to say that it is based in quantum physics when the idea that alternate universes that you can travel between get created every time a wave function collapses breaks the law of conservation of energy. it isn't based in quantum physics, it is based on folk quantum physics, and the words "folk" and "quantum" do not go together very well

Idk, Ive listened to a number of podcasts and it sounds like the mutiple worlds hypothesis is still one of three leading explanations

3:24 AM

I suppose it's the "that you can travel between" part that's "folk"

yeah

8:27 PM

Okay, I know Lily doesn't believe astrology stuff anymore and I hope I'm not being annoying, but come on.

8:27 PM

That's me.

you're watery?

stupid lula

1:46 AM

fish need to be in water

1:46 AM

not on neptune

1:47 AM

there is no water on neptune

Actually, there is water on Neptune! https://www.google.com/amp/s/solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/neptune/in-depth.amp Neptune is the Roman God of the sea, and Neptune the planet was named after him. I think that's why that association was made. Has anyone tried using the astrological signs to figure out when their birthday is? I don't know when my real birthday is, so I wonder how accurate an astrological sign description would be. (edited)

ominous

2:43 AM

I actually experimented with that. We're not exactly sure of when the body was born, but scorpio definitely seems to fit the bill and the general timeline.

That would have to be how I would do it.

6:09 PM

There's one other thing that if I can track down I might be able to approximate the date.

you dont know your body's birthday?

The body's, yes.

6:15 PM

Not mine as a headmate, no, only a rough timeframe.

6:16 PM

I also don't ascribe to astrology, so I was being a little bit cheeky, I suppose.

if its handy!

@Unfastened Belts thought of you

9:47 PM

9:48 PM

the note (try to see how much you can understand before reading it)

9:48 PM

SPOILER

Haha nice

9:53 PM

Yeah, suffering is irrational thought/imagination. As we come to recognize that, it gradually stops arising

I wonder if that "on earth" points to that rising and sinking happens in the sea, which is turbulent and gives and rocks to everything but "on earth" is steady. Like a subtle point to mindfulness.

Hahaha nice :)

I would think mindfulness is key right? To just observe and not be attached?

As my teacher puts it, there are three major movements for suffering to work itself out in the course of "spiritual seeking": Inquiry: understanding what suffering is, and on what basis it arises Witnessing/mindfulness: an impersonal observation of all the content ("objects") arising in the experience, including our body and our thoughts. Whatever we're capable of observing cannot be "us" Allowing the suffering to flower (usually happens in the later stages of seeking): not resisting the suffering energy when it comes knocking. The energy needs to work itself out of our system eventually. "Better out than in"

7:39 PM

Inquiry is the one I usually blabber on about on here because its the easiest to find words for

7:40 PM

Guilt, blame, pride, worry and expectation, arising from a belief in personal doership and attachment to circumstance (pleasure/pain), 'n' all that jazz (edited)

What do you mean what we're capable of observing cannot be us? Should we not be able to observe ourselves?

7:44 PM

I really love that "better out than in" part a LOT.

7:44 PM

Do you do the inquiry part every time suffering comes up?

It's another concept. If we can observe it, it cannot be us, because "what we truly are at our core" is consciousness: impersonal awareness + a sense of existence. That which witnesses. Everything else (such as our body and thoughts) are just objects included in the experience

8:20 PM

You're not really supposed to "do" inquiry, witnessing, etc. They are automatic movements like everything else. Our body functioning according to its genetic design and conditioning. But to not evade your question so much :p yeah, inquiry definitely still comes easier to me than witnessing

8:22 PM

I mean, we are always witnessing/conscious, except we're usually distracted by a layer of suffering thoughts (edited)

a while ago we mentioned shifting, I successfully shifted and it did not bring Sadie with me, so we are assuming she is only bothered by when I am trying to shift. (If you don't know what shifting is, ignore this please : )

What if I'm curious what shifting is?

https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431887969692024843/779514790384107550

Yeah, and I can give you some other resources if you want

Maybe! I can read them if I have time, I've got some other stuff I need to look into too.

cross system switching?

system-hopping

10:54 PM

Where you asking about it?

m00nsp3ak3r

@Unfastened Belts So if, for example, my life turns out bad in general I should conserve this inner peace? If that's the case I still don't see how to accept something like this. Negative emotions like guilt, worry etc are designed to indicate us that something in our life is wrong and more importantly for us to take action. Not everyone is ubermench, if that abstract someone doesn't feel guit for maybe something he should apologize (example) then he most likely wouldn't. I see expectation as some kind of quality control. If one lives in the shithole, expectation of better life should make him miserable, when the psychological stress would cross that line of comfort zone, the one would be made to behave in specific way, i. e. to take action and make his life better. Without negative emotions it's really easy to be content with one's bad quality life and stay stagnant, so don't care about your possibilities of being a better person. Boredom as well, it stimulates one to DO SOMETHING ALREADY instead of wasting time (edited)

Been meaning to reply to this.

So if, for example, my life turns out bad in general I should conserve this inner peace? If that's the case I still don't see how to accept something like this.

The description doesn't say you should conserve inner peace, just that it's theoretically available. There is no way for us do "do" acceptance, but acceptance can happen if life reprograms us in that way.

Negative emotions like guilt, worry etc are designed to indicate us that something in our life is wrong and more importantly for us to take action. [...] I see expectation as some kind of quality control. If one lives in the shithole, expectation of better life should make him miserable, when the psychological stress would cross that line of comfort zone, the one would be made to behave in specific way, i. e. to take action and make his life better.

We can take action to try and circumvent painful circumstance even without obsessing over potential outcomes in the future or fictional scenarios about how the past should have gone.

Not everyone is ubermench, if that abstract someone doesn't feel guit for maybe something he should apologize (example) then he most likely wouldn't.

Even when there is no psychological guilt ("I could and should have functioned differently, so I'm a failure") there can still be emotional sadness in the moment over inadvertently causing pain to someone else. There can be an apology without imagining alternate universes in which I acted differently. Emotional sadness arises and dissolves with the circumstance, whereas guilt can last hours, days, weeks, months, years.

Without negative emotions it's really easy to be content with one's bad quality life and stay stagnant, so don't care about your possibilities of being a better person. Boredom as well, it stimulates one to DO SOMETHING ALREADY instead of wasting time

If you aren't stagnant by nature, you won't become more stagnant just because you stop obsessing over fictional scenarios.

Hey guys. Don't really get on here much. Anyone practice/know much about Taoism? I was reading this thread on a taoist alchemy site (from what it claims to be) and it describes various forms/practices that Taoist immortals undergo. They sound a lot like common practices that people in the tulpamancy community engage in, specifically what the author refers to as "the opportunity to divide [oneself], reproducing the same doubles" which is essentially tulpamancy. I also wonder what the differences between Gui Xian and Shen Xian are besides the fact that with Gui Xian (Ghost Immortality) the person isn't "in" the body upon death, so to speak. Would this be what happens, metaphysically, if a tulpamancer's body were to die but the host themselves aren't fronting? Is that what they refer to with Gui Xian, and why its "forbidden" in taoist circles because it's a false completion of the tao? Is shen xian just a version of enlightenment where a person is able to fully immerse themselves in their (what the author of the site calls) different world aka wonderlands for years at a time? Gives way to the whole "time dilation control in out of body experiences/dreams being real" hypothesis if old taoists are able to do it for "millennia." I've read reports of people having dreams that last anywhere from weeks to full on years, so it doesn't seem totally impossible. But it also talks about real immortality, the body not being affected by age and illness so its hard to make that comparison. Anyways, just wanted to maybe scratch some philosophical heads out there on this discord maybe. Lemme know what you guys think since I don't really have anyone else to bounce these ideas off of. This whole idea leans on the topic of egocide, but egocide has bad connotations whereas Taoist immortality is for spiritual purposes.

5:44 PM

heres the link to what I'm referencing btw http://www.all-dao.com/immortality-achievements.html

Immortality in Taoist alchemy. Levels of achievements

Read the site, interesting stuff :) I have my own ideas about enlightenment...

Now if this were actual immortality, you would definitely have my attention.

Taoism definitely mentions actual immortality as a possibility, if you read the site

Rome

Hey guys. Don't really get on here much. Anyone practice/know much about Taoism? I was reading this thread on a taoist alchemy site (from what it claims to be) and it describes various forms/practices that Taoist immortals undergo. They sound a lot like common practices that people in the tulpamancy community engage in, specifically what the author refers to as "the opportunity to divide [oneself], reproducing the same doubles" which is essentially tulpamancy. I also wonder what the differences between Gui Xian and Shen Xian are besides the fact that with Gui Xian (Ghost Immortality) the person isn't "in" the body upon death, so to speak. Would this be what happens, metaphysically, if a tulpamancer's body were to die but the host themselves aren't fronting? Is that what they refer to with Gui Xian, and why its "forbidden" in taoist circles because it's a false completion of the tao? Is shen xian just a version of enlightenment where a person is able to fully immerse themselves in their (what the author of the site calls) different world aka wonderlands for years at a time? Gives way to the whole "time dilation control in out of body experiences/dreams being real" hypothesis if old taoists are able to do it for "millennia." I've read reports of people having dreams that last anywhere from weeks to full on years, so it doesn't seem totally impossible. But it also talks about real immortality, the body not being affected by age and illness so its hard to make that comparison. Anyways, just wanted to maybe scratch some philosophical heads out there on this discord maybe. Lemme know what you guys think since I don't really have anyone else to bounce these ideas off of. This whole idea leans on the topic of egocide, but egocide has bad connotations whereas Taoist immortality is for spiritual purposes.

I'm trying to learn more about Taoism! But it's been sluggish going so far.

@Rome These practices are extremely closed besides the very basic. Even if you are willing to overlook that and attempt to practice/learn it anyways, you are not going to find very reliable sources on it. Tulpamancy is based off on the Tao concept of tulpa, but everything except the basics has been changed. To them it was more of a tool and less of a sentient being.

I thought the monks who invented tulpas were Buddhists rather than Taoists?

Whoa, been a while since I've seen you around albino

@Albino Elephant I've already learned some forms of practice just from reading around various metaphysical places over the years. As for the concept of them, there seems to be some debate between what they were to various practitioners. Also @Unfastened Belts I'm pretty sure you're right. I think the name tulpa comes from the buddhist concept sprul-pa, which was essentially translated as thoughtform. But I could be wrong.

6:28 AM

The site I gave suggests that practitioners used the concept of tulpas for spiritual exploration, which could be translated to what a lot of people do here.

Taoists are a form of Buddhists. Pretty much all of the Eastern world is influenced by buddhism, same as the Western by Christianity. In a similar regards both have various branches with their own beliefs and Taoism is partly a branch of Buddhism and partly other beliefs.

8:07 AM

There was a scholarly article I saw which was one of the main documents the current Tulpa practices were derived from and the concept of Tulpa was closer to the chaos concept of egregore rather than our usage of Tulpas in this community.

8:07 AM

Hi Reguile, it has been a while. I took a long break from discord

Preeeetty sure Taoists are not "a form of Buddhists", even though they share many concepts

inspiring

Xe

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Fun fact: this was the very first message in this channel. https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431887969692024843/431891141923700736

well shit yes it is

and it was them who posted it

saw that too

3:43 AM

thats saticfying

3:43 AM

satisfying*

I'm pretty sure Taoism is its own thing, even some taoists go and kind of shit on Buddhists and their practices. All metaphysical practices are based on the oldest form of metaphysical practice, which would be either shamanism or animism coming from Africa. They're both kind of the same. Kind of.

what is Taoism?> i've seen it be talked about here. but i dont know what it means

Also I think a lot of people refer to egregores as thoughtforms that are given existence to by multiple people, whereas tulpas are just the individual.

5:06 PM

It's a practice/religion that is metaphysical in nature. A quick google search can give you an overview.

my religion disfavors that kinda stuff.... though... i dont have psychic abilities for nothing so....

5:07 PM

i know a bit about meyaphysics

I've seen people give the way thoughtforms exist just based on the energy they're given. Servitors are for individuals and don't have sentience. Tulpas have sentience and can do what servitors can do and more. They're still only given existence to by one individual. Egregores are the same as tulpas, except they communicate with and interact with multiple people and are given existence to by multiple people. Godforms, which is the final, are just stronger more pumped up versions of egregores.

5:10 PM

Religions that disapprove of metaphysics are controlling religions in my opinion. Thats partially why I couldn't agree with Christianity growing up

.... one of my tulpas wants to be free of my mind.... egregores would be perfect for him XD... but i wont let him leave for.... reasons -_-

5:11 PM

and.... im in christianity... because i believe in god...

I mean, to be an egregore, they'd need other people besides you.

Trelijah wants his OWN body

Why not just let him front for some time?

the only body my tulpas have are in my fictional universe i created

5:12 PM

and.. if i do...... 50/50 chance he'll scream bloody murder at everyone on this server... then ruin my chances of ever coming back here...

You don't trust him? Doesn't sound like a very healthy dynamic

5:13 PM

Is it possible you're projecting your worst fears of what he could do onto his personality? I feel like this happens a LOT in this community, so it's nothing to be ashamed of.

5:13 PM

I've done it many times in the past

Trelijah is a pshycopath half the time

5:14 PM

who wnats to brun the world because oh how horrible it is

5:14 PM

his hearts in the right place i guess... but he's WAY to violant prone!

Ahhh. Gotcha

5:16 PM

I feel like him being around his own people though would mean he'd be less likely to be that way.

5:16 PM

I feel you. This world is pretty shitty to the individual person.

yeah.. i have 10 tulpas btw

5:17 PM

Trelijah is my 9th offical tulpa

5:22 PM

i actually believe that my fictional universe exists out there.. infact.. i beleieve that if you can think it... it exists somewhere... and that the collective boleaf of something... can pull it into our world....

5:22 PM

beleif*